A simple testimony of a simple life in a c.o.m.p.l.i.c.a.t.e.d world.
Monday, October 13, 2003
How does the Bible address homosexuality - the word didn't even exist until 1869? The word first appeared in Germany to describe the theory that from birth some people are predisposed toward persons of the same sex. Since the biblical languages (Hebrew and Greek) had no words for heterosexual or homosexual, it is anachronistic and misleading when homosexual is used to translate a biblical text. It is wrong to proclaim the biblical view of homosexuality since there is none. This violates the integrity of the individual texts and the biblical witness as a whole. Each reference to what is today homosexuality must be read in the light of the particular literary, cultural, and historic contexts of any particular passage.
If Jesus ever said anything about homosexuality, it is not recorded in the Bible, even mistranslated. He did, however, speak extensively on God's unconditional love. Yet instead of dwelling on biblical love, Christians have historically been more concerned with obscure passages of Levitical cleanliness codes and Paul's misunderstood comments in Romans. Instead of focusing on the incredible injustice and hatred demonstrated by Christians and others, tying to deny homosexuals even basic civil rights, people appear more concerned with the specific homosexual acts between consenting adults who are naturally have a homosexual orientation. I would like to add, the Bible more clearly advocates a "love ethic" rather than a "sex ethic."
Traditional Church teaching falsely misuses the Bible to judge the homosexual lifestyle. True Biblical theology begins not with Church tradition and dogma but with the biblical texts themselves. Biblical theology seeks to understand how the biblical authors expressed themselves in the Koine Greek of the time (not expanded by later modern greek meanings), in terms of their culture. Only with this understanding is it legitimate to define biblical sexual ethics of the NT and find implications for today.
There is little said in the bible about homosexuality because it was no big deal! It occupied a prominent and respected position in most Greek and Roman cities at all levels of society and among a substantial part of the population. There are only 4 scriptures that are taken to say anything about homosexuality; the Leviticus laws, I Cor 6:9, Romans 1:26-27, and the story of Sodom and Gomorrah - and none address loving, consenting homosexual acts as we know them today.
There are over 600 individual "laws" in the Levitical code, the breaking of anyone of which would make the sinner unclean and unacceptable to God. It is an abomination to eat pork, etc. The law is no longer in effect and its purpose was to show that man could never follow it. The sins of Sodom and Gomorrah, likewise have nothing to do with homosexuality.
I Cor 6:9, no way refers to homosexuality. The original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality, Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshipping pagan sex gods.
Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist. Alleged references to homosexuality in I Corinthians and I Timothy are the inventions of anti-gay translators. They are not in the original Greek texts.
Print this page out and hand it to your fellow "Christian" with a smile and in hopes of enlightening them, even a little!
Peace, Love and Buddhafulness,
Mikey
The name of the act, Sodomy, comes from this bible story for a reason.
The reason is that the act of homosexuality was so common in sodom. The story tells us that the men of the town were over come with lust for each other. so much so that when angels came to visit Lot, the men of sodom demanded Lot to release the angels to them so that they could have their way with the angels of God.
I live in a very openly gay community in Minneapolis Minnesota, and I have never seen my city so derpraved that it will demand to have sex with my guests. This illustration is given in the bible so that when we come to the part about God destoying the two cities, we understand why. We have a tast for the corruption that caused a loving God who says he is slow to anger to wipe their depravity from the face of the earth. The act of sodomy and the city will be forever know as the reason God destroyed it. This sexually immoral sin called sodomy is an abomination to the Lord.
Now Gamorrah on the other hand may have been just as guilty for other sexually immoral acts but either way, neither of them escaped the fire.
I received this email some time ago and I would like to share it with fellow Fridae members. Although it is referring to the Old Testament, i think it has lessons for all the religious fanatics:
Dr Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to listeners who call in to her radio show. Recently she said that homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstances.
The following is an open letter to Dr Laura penned by a US resident which was posted on the internet.
Dear Laura
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show and try to share that knowledge with as many people as i can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws in the Bible and how to follow them:
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev .1:9 The problem is my neighbours, they claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7 In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is menstruating - Lev 15:19-24 The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking but most women take offence.
4. Lev 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians, Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to killl him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree, can you settle this?
7. Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit I wear reading glasses. does my vision has to be 20/20 or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev 11: 6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I play football if i wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse a lot. Is it necessary that we go through all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24: 10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted fan
Jim
Hope you guys enjoy reading this - those religious Bible and Quran-quoting fanatics should perhaps reflect a little on this?
Now, I began to start knowing people of all walks of life with the same orientation as myself. I've learnt many things about their gay lifestyle. I was somehow shocked and couldn't believe that 'things' are happening in this circle. It also makes me very curious to find out more I don't regret what I've learnt these few months and take it as an essential life experience that I ought to go through if I really want to grow up and mature.
Well, I'm happy to get to know a few nice and sincere aj friends and currently hoping for my dream date to appear
To my Christian bros and sisters who tried to change us, I have no anger towards them. Nor do i blame them for things that they said... Its just that they do not have the understanding of the struggles we've been thru... I could only blame it on their ignorance.
It was not an easy childhood for me... times that i cried and ask God "Why did you created me this way? Why can't I be a normal person like the others?" But then, as time grows..I began to realise I'm asking the same question as someone would ask:" why am I born blind? why am i born handicapped? why am i born with a father that abuses me? why am i born in a family that is so poor and life is so tough? why are things not so perfect for me?" why why why? If you are God, how would u answer that?
I have been thru group and counselling sessions that 'changes' you. But I must defend, its not the same the time I attended compared to today. It was about living with it... It was not about changing, it was about my own life choices. so, i choose mine...
I still believes that the Word of God stands. That I live a life that reflects His image in me. To live a life that applies to my straight brothers and sisters...and the same to me...
I do not believe that you need to be a bible scholar to understand wat God's love meant for us. Of cos its important to understand wat His words really means.
God makes no mistakes. There are many things abt Him we do not understand or know.
In simple faith... I believe God made us in His image. He is beautiful... I am beautiful too!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In simple faith... I believe God made us in His image. He is beautiful... I am beautiful too!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... which in my humble opinion makes you a better Christian than those who profess adherence to Christianity and yet refuse to even try to understand the diversity of mankind. I really hate to say it, but some of the rhetoric uttered by so-called Christian groups (and some established large churches) is very much akin to brainwashing.
I applaud your attitude and your faith.
I can't agree more with Buzz and Yvr2017 - God made us in his image , (not the physical image as our bodies are nothing more than the receptacle for our souls) but in His Spiritual Image. God is compassionate and His love for us knows no bounds, no race, no religion and definitely no sexual orientation. He has made us what we are and it is up to us how we make use of our lives and gifts to be more like Him - compassionate and the ability to love without exceptions or conditions. Of course, this is easier said than done and that is also why we all can't be like God! But in our own little deeds and in our hearts, if we can strive to be more like Him, we have already done humanity a lot of good - much more than those religious fanatics waving their guns and bombs, much more than those holier-than-thou religious fiends who think their mission on earth is to convert others, including homosexuals! Buzz you can't be more correct by saying,"we forgive them for their ignorance"! My sincere apologies to our lesbian friends, I'm not being sexist here but we are used to referring to God as He.
It really is a huge breath of fresh air when we read such mature and intelligent contributions from members instead of those who can only moan and groan about small pricks and what to wear for the next party!
Have a Good Day everybody
i was once an avid christian believer and server until i fell into homosexuality several years ago. drained and tired with a guilt-ridden heart, leaving the church was my decision.
throughout that time, i thought i found love. unfortunately myself and my ex partner couldn't move on as we do not have our loved ones' blessings (besides our lesbian friends) what which weighed us down more was the scripture we came upon in the bible which speaks of exactly what you thought we do not know where God's stand on homosexuality is.
in leviticus18:22-24, God said, ' Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you become defiled.
and in leviticus18:29-30, ' Everyone who does any of these detestable things - such persons MUST BE CUT OFF FROM THEIR PEOPLE. Keep my requirements and do njot follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them I am the Lord your God.'
are these not enough to understand what God's stand is?
Yes, we are indeed made in the very image of God. but to choose to disobey and defile purity is in our hands. For God so loves his creation, he gave us the freedom of choice. Of which verse in the scripture tells you that God COMMANDS us to never sin? What did he do when adam and eve sinned? He could've destroyed everything and created new adams and eves living in a perfect Garden of Eden without a serpent to tempt them. But he didn't! He loved adam and eve so much he didn't want to kill them, instead, he punished them so that they'll learn their lesson. Just like God, our fathers at home punishes us because they love us too much to allow us to stay the same. Remember the last time your dad got mad and yelled at your mistake and you felt like running away from home? Let's say you ran away. Let's say you never went back home again. Yes, your dad might've dragged you back home but does your heart stay the same? Do you still make that very mistake your dad was mad about? Yes. because we CHOOSE to. If God didn't know we would sin (after adam and eve fell for the serpent's trap), why would he bother sending his only son, Jesus Christ to die for our sins 2003 years ago? Yes his blood was shed to cleanse our sins.
until the second coming of Jesus, we would still be in sin.
But friends, to live in sin and to CHOOSE to live in sin is different, isn't it? Remember, we have the freedom to choose. Whether or not you want to surrender your life to God is up to you. And should you choose to live the wrong way which the Lord has warned us against and believe that God will give us grace, then I must tell you you're simply running away from the truth.
in fact, it is crazy grace, ain't amazing grace. we often take God for granted but we do not know God does give up on us. Why would he need us for he is God? He doesn't need to plead us back to him. Why should a creator beg his creation into anything he wants since he can destroy them anytime he wants? he made us. so can he destroy us.
but did he? no he didnt. everywhere around us, there're plenty of ppl who choose to live in sin.they're still living arent they? yes you have 'faith' in God. Yes, you say that you love him. but how can you say so when you do not understand the God you claim you love?
you can't understand why war still goes on and then turn around and blame God for allowing it to happen. you ask why doesnt he wipe out the terrorists who killed millions and accuse him of being ignorant and ruthless. Do you think he loves it when he saw so much of his creation being tortured, hurt or simply upset like you and i at least once before? if you were the potter of a vase, wouldnt your heart break should it be broken by someone? what more our Potter up in heaven witnessing his very own people destroying one another!
if you really love God, ask yourself these today.
when i let Jesus' hand go that day, it was so painful to run back to God whenever I felt i needed him because i was already so far away from him. because i let his hand go.
it is a personal experience and i know you can never be free from the strongholds of homosexuality and tampered beliefs like God's everlasting grace for the world UNTIL you confess and turn your ways. may this be stuck in your mind all your life. having read this, do not cry out to god and ask why have you been so miserable for you have been warned but chose to rebel.
he didnt leave you. You left him.
i wonder why you left your religion just because of being homosexual, but i guess you have ur inner struggle/reasons...
yeah, we know god does not like homos, but we know he loves us. but i guess, the Real gays (including you, i hope) know that we dont have as much a choice being a homo than being lets say.. born chinese (altho there are some out there who refuse to be chinese and CHOOSE to be ang moh). when you fall means you fall what right, you didnt CHOOSE to be tripped and land smack on your face.
besides, there are many things in this world other than being homosexual, so many other things to be done to give your glory to god. just because u have a small little sin of being gay doesnt mean u should forsake ur god? as you said "he didnt leave you. You left him." were you refering to yourself?
cmon, return to god, im sure he doesnt mind. like a father who does not at all mind a child who has ran away from home coming back home. there are so many people out there whos gay but serving god. there are so many sinners out there sinning again and again but still serving god. there are so many adulterers out there doing what they do best but still serving god...ok u get the point.
all will sin as humans, so theres no point lying to yourself by trying to become like a saint when you are born human.
well...a suggestion, maybe you can try atoning for ur 'sin'? if that would make you feel better...
a parting thought: since there are so many homos in the world (although we're the minority), there must be a reason why we are 'created' by god and living here right? [my off-the-cuff, brainless bimbotic answer would be to make the world a more beautiful/aesthetic place with gay designer wear, make-up and interior furnishings *__* ]
God loves us! the least (and maybe most) we can do is to love him back?
I'm sorry CCCCrubs but what you wrote betrays your guilt-ridden misunderstood notion of what God is about! God is not some supreme being waiting for judgement day to mete out his retribution to all who have sinned! Why should He wait? If He is what you mistake Him to be, He could have destroyed us in one swoop of his breath! Please CCCCRubs, if you must live by guilt and fear, then so be it but please do not judge others by your own beliefs. We are what we are and we try to be in our own liitle ways and deeds to be truthful and sincere in our conduct. Homosexuality is not the end-all of our existence (unless we live a hedonistic life). We have other God-given gifts which we can use to alleviate mankind of its suffering. There's no point in being guilt-ridden, living a life of lies and praying that we will ascend to Heaven when we die - my dear, Heaven or Hell is right here on Earth and what we make of it
the free-will has given me the right to choose who i love. and i for one won't let other people who try to control my life steer the way i live. who are they to control me when god has given me freedom. i live only by my personal convictions and not by anyone else's.
I DON'T WISH TO BE A SINNER AND I DON'T WISH TO BE A SAINT. I JUST WISH TO LIVE MY LIFE THE WAY I WANT TO BY THE FREEDOM THAT GOD HAS GIVEN ME.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by chineseto
(THE other "churches")... should I care about what THEY have to say about my orientation or should I listen to God one and only?!
I believe everything happened based on God's wonderful plan for each one of us. God Bless [/B]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well put, Chinseto - i can't agree more. At the end of the day, we have to answer for our words and actions to God and to God only - not some pastor or priest or imam or whoever. The churches have no moral authorithy over us as they themselves are embroiled in corruption, politics and sexual misconduct. Churches nowadays are institutions set up by a few to control the many who would listen to their liturgy of fear and guilt, meanwhile collecting huge sums of money building those pretentious and opulent edifices for their own misguided glory. You are damn right Chineseto when you wrote the "church" is within ourselves - we and our conscience are answerable only to God , nobody else and definitely not to some institutionalised church!
And yes, everything happens based on our actions and reactions to God's wonderful plan for each of us. We don't have to moan and groan and feel guilty just because we are gay - God has given us many other gifts, question is , What are we doing about them?
still searching
this is great...u guys talk about ur faith and ur orientation... and how to deal with it.
myself, being raised in a very conservative christian, i have a strong belief AND faith for God's existence, love, and mercy. but, churches have been a triping stone for me. that's rite, i said a big chunk, hunk of tripping stone. instead of growing spiritually, i feel that i have been depressed spiritually, emotionally, and finally physically. I still often wonder if I was a mistake, but i don't think i was. God made everything perfect, and im sure before he sent me to earth He did a whole check list of "perfectness"... and i must have been perfect in His eyes...
i believe that church IS the people inside.. im a church, and so is every other christian ppl. Churches' task in this world is to "fish" other lost souls and build a bigger kingdom of God. But y do i feel alienated from other ppl?? (THE other "churches")... should I care about what THEY have to say about my orientation or should I listen to God one and only?! i wish the answer would come dynamically and easily.
Churches are the voice of God and up to this moment im still quiestioning the validity of being gay in the eye of my Creator. Are those other "churches" saying what God wants ME to hear? or am i denying the fact that "churches" telling the truth and only truth from God? ....or could they be just telling the stuff they ASSUMED God wants them to tell me and other gay ppl?
I do my best to uphold God's rules and reflect His love. But is Being gay one of them?
I believe everything happened based on God's wonderful plan for each one of us. God Bless
Some more follow up info........
How does the Bible address homosexuality - the word didn't even exist until 1869? The word first appeared in Germany to describe the theory that from birth some people are predisposed toward persons of the same sex. Since the biblical languages (Hebrew and Greek) had no words for heterosexual or homosexual, it is anachronistic and misleading when homosexual is used to translate a biblical text. It is wrong to proclaim the biblical view of homosexuality since there is none. This violates the integrity of the individual texts and the biblical witness as a whole. Each reference to what is today homosexuality must be read in the light of the particular literary, cultural, and historic contexts of any particular passage.
If Jesus ever said anything about homosexuality, it is not recorded in the Bible, even mistranslated. He did, however, speak extensively on God's unconditional love. Yet instead of dwelling on biblical love, Christians have historically been more concerned with obscure passages of Levitical cleanliness codes and Paul's misunderstood comments in Romans. Instead of focusing on the incredible injustice and hatred demonstrated by Christians and others, tying to deny homosexuals even basic civil rights, people appear more concerned with the specific homosexual acts between consenting adults who are naturally have a homosexual orientation. I would like to add, the Bible more clearly advocates a "love ethic" rather than a "sex ethic."
Traditional Church teaching falsely misuses the Bible to judge the homosexual lifestyle. True Biblical theology begins not with Church tradition and dogma but with the biblical texts themselves. Biblical theology seeks to understand how the biblical authors expressed themselves in the Koine Greek of the time (not expanded by later modern greek meanings), in terms of their culture. Only with this understanding is it legitimate to define biblical sexual ethics of the NT and find implications for today.
There is little said in the bible about homosexuality because it was no big deal! It occupied a prominent and respected position in most Greek and Roman cities at all levels of society and among a substantial part of the population. There are only 4 scriptures that are taken to say anything about homosexuality; the Leviticus laws, I Cor 6:9, Romans 1:26-27, and the story of Sodom and Gomorrah - and none address loving, consenting homosexual acts as we know them today.
There are over 600 individual "laws" in the Levitical code, the breaking of anyone of which would make the sinner unclean and unacceptable to God. It is an abomination to eat pork, etc. The law is no longer in effect and its purpose was to show that man could never follow it. The sins of Sodom and Gomorrah, likewise have nothing to do with homosexuality.
I Cor 6:9, no way refers to homosexuality. The original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality, Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshipping pagan sex gods.
Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist. Alleged references to homosexuality in I Corinthians and I Timothy are the inventions of anti-gay translators. They are not in the original Greek texts.
Print this page out and hand it to your fellow "Christian" with a smile and in hopes of enlightening them, even a little!
Peace, Love and Buddhafulness,
Mikey
sexual imorrality and gamorrah
The name of the act, Sodomy, comes from this bible story for a reason.
The reason is that the act of homosexuality was so common in sodom. The story tells us that the men of the town were over come with lust for each other. so much so that when angels came to visit Lot, the men of sodom demanded Lot to release the angels to them so that they could have their way with the angels of God.
I live in a very openly gay community in Minneapolis Minnesota, and I have never seen my city so derpraved that it will demand to have sex with my guests. This illustration is given in the bible so that when we come to the part about God destoying the two cities, we understand why. We have a tast for the corruption that caused a loving God who says he is slow to anger to wipe their depravity from the face of the earth. The act of sodomy and the city will be forever know as the reason God destroyed it. This sexually immoral sin called sodomy is an abomination to the Lord.
Now Gamorrah on the other hand may have been just as guilty for other sexually immoral acts but either way, neither of them escaped the fire.
HOMOSEXUALITY AND RELIGION
I received this email some time ago and I would like to share it with fellow Fridae members. Although it is referring to the Old Testament, i think it has lessons for all the religious fanatics:
Dr Laura Schlessinger is a US radio personality who dispenses advice to listeners who call in to her radio show. Recently she said that homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstances.
The following is an open letter to Dr Laura penned by a US resident which was posted on the internet.
Dear Laura
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show and try to share that knowledge with as many people as i can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws in the Bible and how to follow them:
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord - Lev .1:9 The problem is my neighbours, they claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7 In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is menstruating - Lev 15:19-24 The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking but most women take offence.
4. Lev 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A friend of mine claims this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians, Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to killl him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree, can you settle this?
7. Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit I wear reading glasses. does my vision has to be 20/20 or is there some wiggle room here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev 11: 6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I play football if i wear gloves?
10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse a lot. Is it necessary that we go through all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24: 10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev 20:14)
I know you have studied these things extensively so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.
Your devoted fan
Jim
Hope you guys enjoy reading this - those religious Bible and Quran-quoting fanatics should perhaps reflect a little on this?
I am a Christian gay too. I never read any article before on Fridae, but the cover article on spiritual coming out really caught my attention. I have also been struggling for years. My cell group leader cum hostel buddy in university knows about my case a short while after we started knowing each other. I actually had a crush on him, that's how he notice a change in my behaviour towards him. Since then, he has been very concerned over my sexuality and keeps trying to help me to turn straight. Well, I left my ex-bf and begin to hang out with my church friends. For a year, I had brushed this issue aside and hoping that it will be resolved. However, I know this can't really be hid as I still gets excited over many nice and desirable guys I encountered daily.
Now, I began to start knowing people of all walks of life with the same orientation as myself. I've learnt many things about their gay lifestyle. I was somehow shocked and couldn't believe that 'things' are happening in this circle. It also makes me very curious to find out more I don't regret what I've learnt these few months and take it as an essential life experience that I ought to go through if I really want to grow up and mature.
Well, I'm happy to get to know a few nice and sincere aj friends and currently hoping for my dream date to appear
Facing this issue as both a homosexual and a Christian has not been an easy task for me. But today, I stand convinced I am wat God has created and that my life is wat he has intended it to be...
To my Christian bros and sisters who tried to change us, I have no anger towards them. Nor do i blame them for things that they said... Its just that they do not have the understanding of the struggles we've been thru... I could only blame it on their ignorance.
It was not an easy childhood for me... times that i cried and ask God "Why did you created me this way? Why can't I be a normal person like the others?" But then, as time grows..I began to realise I'm asking the same question as someone would ask:" why am I born blind? why am i born handicapped? why am i born with a father that abuses me? why am i born in a family that is so poor and life is so tough? why are things not so perfect for me?" why why why? If you are God, how would u answer that?
I have been thru group and counselling sessions that 'changes' you. But I must defend, its not the same the time I attended compared to today. It was about living with it... It was not about changing, it was about my own life choices. so, i choose mine...
I still believes that the Word of God stands. That I live a life that reflects His image in me. To live a life that applies to my straight brothers and sisters...and the same to me...
I do not believe that you need to be a bible scholar to understand wat God's love meant for us. Of cos its important to understand wat His words really means.
God makes no mistakes. There are many things abt Him we do not understand or know.
In simple faith... I believe God made us in His image. He is beautiful... I am beautiful too!!!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In simple faith... I believe God made us in His image. He is beautiful... I am beautiful too!!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... which in my humble opinion makes you a better Christian than those who profess adherence to Christianity and yet refuse to even try to understand the diversity of mankind. I really hate to say it, but some of the rhetoric uttered by so-called Christian groups (and some established large churches) is very much akin to brainwashing.
I applaud your attitude and your faith.
BUZZ IS RIGHT
I can't agree more with Buzz and Yvr2017 - God made us in his image , (not the physical image as our bodies are nothing more than the receptacle for our souls) but in His Spiritual Image. God is compassionate and His love for us knows no bounds, no race, no religion and definitely no sexual orientation. He has made us what we are and it is up to us how we make use of our lives and gifts to be more like Him - compassionate and the ability to love without exceptions or conditions. Of course, this is easier said than done and that is also why we all can't be like God! But in our own little deeds and in our hearts, if we can strive to be more like Him, we have already done humanity a lot of good - much more than those religious fanatics waving their guns and bombs, much more than those holier-than-thou religious fiends who think their mission on earth is to convert others, including homosexuals! Buzz you can't be more correct by saying,"we forgive them for their ignorance"! My sincere apologies to our lesbian friends, I'm not being sexist here but we are used to referring to God as He.
It really is a huge breath of fresh air when we read such mature and intelligent contributions from members instead of those who can only moan and groan about small pricks and what to wear for the next party!
Have a Good Day everybody
hello all,
i was once an avid christian believer and server until i fell into homosexuality several years ago. drained and tired with a guilt-ridden heart, leaving the church was my decision.
throughout that time, i thought i found love. unfortunately myself and my ex partner couldn't move on as we do not have our loved ones' blessings (besides our lesbian friends) what which weighed us down more was the scripture we came upon in the bible which speaks of exactly what you thought we do not know where God's stand on homosexuality is.
in leviticus18:22-24, God said, ' Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable. Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you become defiled.
and in leviticus18:29-30, ' Everyone who does any of these detestable things - such persons MUST BE CUT OFF FROM THEIR PEOPLE. Keep my requirements and do njot follow any of the detestable customs that were practiced before you came and do not defile yourselves with them I am the Lord your God.'
are these not enough to understand what God's stand is?
Yes, we are indeed made in the very image of God. but to choose to disobey and defile purity is in our hands. For God so loves his creation, he gave us the freedom of choice. Of which verse in the scripture tells you that God COMMANDS us to never sin? What did he do when adam and eve sinned? He could've destroyed everything and created new adams and eves living in a perfect Garden of Eden without a serpent to tempt them. But he didn't! He loved adam and eve so much he didn't want to kill them, instead, he punished them so that they'll learn their lesson. Just like God, our fathers at home punishes us because they love us too much to allow us to stay the same. Remember the last time your dad got mad and yelled at your mistake and you felt like running away from home? Let's say you ran away. Let's say you never went back home again. Yes, your dad might've dragged you back home but does your heart stay the same? Do you still make that very mistake your dad was mad about? Yes. because we CHOOSE to. If God didn't know we would sin (after adam and eve fell for the serpent's trap), why would he bother sending his only son, Jesus Christ to die for our sins 2003 years ago? Yes his blood was shed to cleanse our sins.
until the second coming of Jesus, we would still be in sin.
But friends, to live in sin and to CHOOSE to live in sin is different, isn't it? Remember, we have the freedom to choose. Whether or not you want to surrender your life to God is up to you. And should you choose to live the wrong way which the Lord has warned us against and believe that God will give us grace, then I must tell you you're simply running away from the truth.
in fact, it is crazy grace, ain't amazing grace. we often take God for granted but we do not know God does give up on us. Why would he need us for he is God? He doesn't need to plead us back to him. Why should a creator beg his creation into anything he wants since he can destroy them anytime he wants? he made us. so can he destroy us.
but did he? no he didnt. everywhere around us, there're plenty of ppl who choose to live in sin.they're still living arent they? yes you have 'faith' in God. Yes, you say that you love him. but how can you say so when you do not understand the God you claim you love?
you can't understand why war still goes on and then turn around and blame God for allowing it to happen. you ask why doesnt he wipe out the terrorists who killed millions and accuse him of being ignorant and ruthless. Do you think he loves it when he saw so much of his creation being tortured, hurt or simply upset like you and i at least once before? if you were the potter of a vase, wouldnt your heart break should it be broken by someone? what more our Potter up in heaven witnessing his very own people destroying one another!
if you really love God, ask yourself these today.
when i let Jesus' hand go that day, it was so painful to run back to God whenever I felt i needed him because i was already so far away from him. because i let his hand go.
it is a personal experience and i know you can never be free from the strongholds of homosexuality and tampered beliefs like God's everlasting grace for the world UNTIL you confess and turn your ways. may this be stuck in your mind all your life. having read this, do not cry out to god and ask why have you been so miserable for you have been warned but chose to rebel.
he didnt leave you. You left him.
hi cccrubs
i wonder why you left your religion just because of being homosexual, but i guess you have ur inner struggle/reasons...
yeah, we know god does not like homos, but we know he loves us. but i guess, the Real gays (including you, i hope) know that we dont have as much a choice being a homo than being lets say.. born chinese (altho there are some out there who refuse to be chinese and CHOOSE to be ang moh). when you fall means you fall what right, you didnt CHOOSE to be tripped and land smack on your face.
besides, there are many things in this world other than being homosexual, so many other things to be done to give your glory to god. just because u have a small little sin of being gay doesnt mean u should forsake ur god? as you said "he didnt leave you. You left him." were you refering to yourself?
cmon, return to god, im sure he doesnt mind. like a father who does not at all mind a child who has ran away from home coming back home. there are so many people out there whos gay but serving god. there are so many sinners out there sinning again and again but still serving god. there are so many adulterers out there doing what they do best but still serving god...ok u get the point.
all will sin as humans, so theres no point lying to yourself by trying to become like a saint when you are born human.
well...a suggestion, maybe you can try atoning for ur 'sin'? if that would make you feel better...
a parting thought: since there are so many homos in the world (although we're the minority), there must be a reason why we are 'created' by god and living here right? [my off-the-cuff, brainless bimbotic answer would be to make the world a more beautiful/aesthetic place with gay designer wear, make-up and interior furnishings *__* ]
God loves us! the least (and maybe most) we can do is to love him back?
GOD MISUNDERSTOOD
I'm sorry CCCCrubs but what you wrote betrays your guilt-ridden misunderstood notion of what God is about! God is not some supreme being waiting for judgement day to mete out his retribution to all who have sinned! Why should He wait? If He is what you mistake Him to be, He could have destroyed us in one swoop of his breath! Please CCCCRubs, if you must live by guilt and fear, then so be it but please do not judge others by your own beliefs. We are what we are and we try to be in our own liitle ways and deeds to be truthful and sincere in our conduct. Homosexuality is not the end-all of our existence (unless we live a hedonistic life). We have other God-given gifts which we can use to alleviate mankind of its suffering. There's no point in being guilt-ridden, living a life of lies and praying that we will ascend to Heaven when we die - my dear, Heaven or Hell is right here on Earth and what we make of it
god made us with love. so how can we comprehend love the way people want us to when they themselves know not how to. how are we to love one another within the bible, WHEN LOVE GOES BEYOUND EVERYTHING????? god gave us our free-will. and we choose this path of love. how can i sin when all i do is to love god and my parthner??? can we actually use the bible as guide lines as to how we should and should not love???? love is intangible, unpredictable and certainly uncontrollable. i may not be a christian but i do believe in god. he made us and i feel constantly, his love in which he made us all. andi am reminded by this love to love everyone. it drives me on.
the free-will has given me the right to choose who i love. and i for one won't let other people who try to control my life steer the way i live. who are they to control me when god has given me freedom. i live only by my personal convictions and not by anyone else's.
I DON'T WISH TO BE A SINNER AND I DON'T WISH TO BE A SAINT. I JUST WISH TO LIVE MY LIFE THE WAY I WANT TO BY THE FREEDOM THAT GOD HAS GIVEN ME.
SEARCH AND YE SHALL FIND
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by chineseto
(THE other "churches")... should I care about what THEY have to say about my orientation or should I listen to God one and only?!
I believe everything happened based on God's wonderful plan for each one of us. God Bless [/B]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well put, Chinseto - i can't agree more. At the end of the day, we have to answer for our words and actions to God and to God only - not some pastor or priest or imam or whoever. The churches have no moral authorithy over us as they themselves are embroiled in corruption, politics and sexual misconduct. Churches nowadays are institutions set up by a few to control the many who would listen to their liturgy of fear and guilt, meanwhile collecting huge sums of money building those pretentious and opulent edifices for their own misguided glory. You are damn right Chineseto when you wrote the "church" is within ourselves - we and our conscience are answerable only to God , nobody else and definitely not to some institutionalised church!
And yes, everything happens based on our actions and reactions to God's wonderful plan for each of us. We don't have to moan and groan and feel guilty just because we are gay - God has given us many other gifts, question is , What are we doing about them?
still searching
this is great...u guys talk about ur faith and ur orientation... and how to deal with it.
myself, being raised in a very conservative christian, i have a strong belief AND faith for God's existence, love, and mercy. but, churches have been a triping stone for me. that's rite, i said a big chunk, hunk of tripping stone. instead of growing spiritually, i feel that i have been depressed spiritually, emotionally, and finally physically. I still often wonder if I was a mistake, but i don't think i was. God made everything perfect, and im sure before he sent me to earth He did a whole check list of "perfectness"... and i must have been perfect in His eyes...
i believe that church IS the people inside.. im a church, and so is every other christian ppl. Churches' task in this world is to "fish" other lost souls and build a bigger kingdom of God. But y do i feel alienated from other ppl?? (THE other "churches")... should I care about what THEY have to say about my orientation or should I listen to God one and only?! i wish the answer would come dynamically and easily.
Churches are the voice of God and up to this moment im still quiestioning the validity of being gay in the eye of my Creator. Are those other "churches" saying what God wants ME to hear? or am i denying the fact that "churches" telling the truth and only truth from God? ....or could they be just telling the stuff they ASSUMED God wants them to tell me and other gay ppl?
I do my best to uphold God's rules and reflect His love. But is Being gay one of them?
I believe everything happened based on God's wonderful plan for each one of us. God Bless